Opus economy

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GuyCliquil
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Opus economy

Postby GuyCliquil » Mon Dec 21, 2015 3:59 pm

Hello

How have people found Opus economy? One of my future ideas is a deck. There, that's a useful sentence. More importantly I have been looking at econ packages and I am toying with the Magnum Opus engine as being the main focus of it. Does anyone have experience of using it extensively? I worry it'll be a little slow, so I'm thinking of throwing in the odd Stimhack just keep myself capable of bursting. Equally I am worried about click intensive it is.

Does anyone have any general observations about Opus economy builds they would care to share?
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Re: Opus economy

Postby mendax » Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:00 pm

Opus is super slow, so you'll struggle vs any deck working on click compression.

You probably want a vamp, if you can fit one in.
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Re: Opus economy

Postby Nemamiah » Mon Dec 21, 2015 4:17 pm

I think that the bigger problem is that you live and die by your ability to find and play Opus quickly and efficiently. If you have Opus in play pretty much any other slot that you dedicate to economy becomes redundant. That means that the most tuned Opus lists are literally just playing that and nothing else for economy, because you don't want to draw your secondary money cards (which will be worse than clicking Opus) later in the game.

But then you absolutely have to find your Opus quickly and efficiently, otherwise you'll never have money again. Even with three Opus and three SMC there'll be games where you don't find it, so ideally you also need to play a ton of draw and/or other search cards, like Test Run. The next problem is that kind of takes you away from the generally accepted 'best' breaker suites, which at the moment tend towards cheap and efficient breakers rather than the expensive big rig kind.

Then you have to be able to get Opus in to play efficiently, so as not to lose too much tempo. I don't actually think Opus is that slow, the bigger problem is that it sets you back quite a way when you first play it and it's quite click intensive. So now you want cards like Modded or Stimhack (to reduce the cost of getting it in to play) and Earthrise Hotel or Wyldside and Adjusted Chronotype (to let you draw cards while you're hammering the Opus button).

Then you have to worry about memory. Opus takes up two slots of your slots, so now you need extra memory to give you any flexibility. That means you have to either play Chaos Theory or put more cards like various memchips in your deck, to let you have Opus and a full rig.

And that sums up the issue for me. As soon as you decide that you're going to play Opus it defines a lot of the rest of your deck choices for you. What's more, some of those deck choices are probably going to be cards that you normally wouldn't play, and in some cases are 'worse' than the alternative that you would have been playing. This would be fine, but most factions already have extremely strong economy choices that don't constrain your deck building nearly so much, so those are almost always the preferred answer.

This absolutely doesn't mean that Opus decks can't be good. There are several lists floating around at the moment that Opus is good in, precisely because it gives you reliable, long term economy at a steady rate for a relatively minimal investment. The trick is that you have to look at Opus and all the baggage that comes with it, rather than just looking at a single card and saying "Two credits for a click is great!"
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Re: Opus economy

Postby Rotage » Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:39 pm

I've played Opus a lot (mostly out of Kate) and I can't disagree with Nemamiah on this. I would have 3 test run, 3 smc and 3 magnum and in most games I would have Magnum out turn 1, the issue was that while I spent my 1st turn setting up Magnum I wasn't achieving much else, against slower decks such as RP I found it would work well as I could use RDI to get an R&D lock and build up money, however FA decks were tough and I never found a way to compete with those decks (a lot probably down to my play with the deck)

For memory I always had issues so much so in the end I swapped the standard memchip for a cybersolutions memchip this helped massively as once I had one of those who installed I was able to get my rig out

I have been looking at Magnum decks again of late as I feel with Foodcoats they may be viable but I am still at the early phases of testing and I am still not convinced it is right way to go

Let us know how you get on, I may be bringing a Magnum deck to the Reading GNK on the 2nd January so if you are there we can discuss it further
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Re: Opus economy

Postby Chimpster » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:55 pm

I've always loved Opus driven econ but it's never quite worked out on a practical level.

Interestingly, the death knell for my CT Opus deck was the rise of RP. Rob is quite right in suggesting that in a world of click compression, Opus becomes a little too time intensive and foodcoats causes similar issues for Opus (curse you Caprice!). Against FA, you'll definitely want the threat of clot to slow them down towards a stronger end game.

I agree that a deck needs to be built around Opus, you definitely want cards like stimhack, some draw, maybe PW and modded as well as the standard tutoring options.

I still think CT is the ideal ID for any deck reliant on Opus for economy, extra mem and smaller deck size is exactly what you need to get it setup early.
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Re: Opus economy

Postby GuyCliquil » Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:44 am

Thank you for your responses thus far

Assuming you can get passed these issues, that feel a little bit more like set-up/early game issues (which I'm not dismissing) have people ever found themselves out econned by corps over the long haul? I have some worries that a decent asset economy that I haven't been challenging (due to set up) outpaces me, and the taxing ice makes the Opus not enough to keep up. Have people ever had that kind of problem?
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Re: Opus economy

Postby evilgaz » Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:38 pm

I played a Chaos Theory MO deck to Store Champ victory earlier in the year and made about 5-6 top cuts with it in SCs too.

Chaos Theory is a small deck, so you're more likely to find your economy engine quickly.
She comes with added free memory, so you can cope with that early - add in Astrolabe and some other form of mems too though.
You do need some additional economy to kick-start the process, but don't want it to conflict with MO. Dirty Laundry recovers money during runs, Modded is great for getting MO out in the first place and also useful for clearing over-draw when you're hammering Diesel etc. to find what you want. Particularly useful at making RDI seem palatable. Stimhack has great synergy with SMC and makes good burst action.
You're missing the fast escalation of credits PPD Kate gets, so things like Stimhack are a shoe-in.

It's a bit slower to set up, but then so is Kate these days. I've spent several turns clicking for eight before now. It's like a more flexible Day Job. If you know you can get in, (similar to Kate) then racking up cash really makes the Corp feel uncomfortable.

If not Vamp you could go Account Siphon to keep people poor and get burst econ. More these days I'd be tempted to have Legwork etc., but it's nice to have lots of HQ pressure one way or another to go with the R&D attack generally associated with Shaper.

Your main issue is people can see how much money you have and so will try to make you spend unwisely to create scoring windows. Stimhack is one answer, but there are others. You have to have ways of creating uncertainty or suprise as a MO player, otherwise a good Corp player with simply out-maths you (assuming all other things are equal and they get the appropriate cards, aren't flooded etc.).

Kate is more flexible and has strong later game, but get your MO set up early (turn 1 ideally, maybe 2-3) and you can start racking cash. Having 3x Clone chip is a must, what it often comes down to is how you keep your deck size small enough.
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Re: Opus economy

Postby GuyCliquil » Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:47 pm

Thank you for this.

Out of interest why are the 3 Clone Chips a must? Is it due to fear of Opus trash or because it is the best way to use Stimhack and play with the corp player's perception of the safety of their servers? My initial thinking had dropped the Clone Chips so am alarmed to see a potential glaring error on my part!
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Re: Opus economy

Postby Chimpster » Tue Dec 22, 2015 1:59 pm

Often the early SMC is soaked up with bringing out Opus so yes, you definitely want 3x clone chips. Equally as you stated, program trashing is death to you, you can't run without the means of bringing out the right tool, and you want to get as much use out of simhacks as possible.
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Re: Opus economy

Postby evilgaz » Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:23 pm

What Chimpster said.

You might want to do the Clot thing as well, in which case they're extra important.
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Re: Opus economy

Postby Chimpster » Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:58 pm

I'm still a big fan of the 1x Sneakdoor 1x Clot inf spend over 2x legwork so again, you'll definitely want clone chips for recurring clot and bringing out the surprise Sneakdoor via SMC.

Edit, what Gaz said :p
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Re: Opus economy

Postby Chimpster » Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:16 pm

This is the list I'm testing fruitlessly because of my CT fanboyism.

D&D CT

(Cyber Exodus)

Event (9)
3x (Core Set)
2x (Core Set)
3x (Core Set) •••
1x (Cyber Exodus)

Hardware (11)
2x (Up and Over)
3x (Creation and Control)
2x (Chrome City)
1x (What Lies Ahead)
3x (Future Proof)

Resource (6)
1x (Old Hollywood)
3x (Cyber Exodus)
2x (The Valley)

Icebreaker (5)
1x (Creation and Control)
1x (Core Set) ••
1x (Core Set)
1x (Core Set)
1x (True Colors)

Program (9)
1x (The Valley) ••
1x (The Spaces Between) ••••
3x (Core Set)
3x (Creation and Control)
1x (Core Set) •••
15 influence spent (max 15)
40 cards (min 40)
Cards up to Old Hollywood

Deck built on .

Would like another test run atm since d4v1d is such a powerhouse, not sure what to drop yet though. Really enjoying atman and net ready eyes atm. Atman at 4 with the possibility of going to 5 is pretty good right now, even if it can't touch Turing.

Would like room for a parasite but that means going 2x lady which I don't really want to do with so much pressure on the SMCs and Clone Chips already.

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