Blacklist RP

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king_mob
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Blacklist RP

Postby king_mob » Wed May 20, 2015 12:37 pm

I felt like doing something a bit different with the current hot topic corp ID, Replicating Perfection. I took the basic idea behind uncorrodable and ran with it, it ended up very similar to shutdown PE, but of course now we have blacklist, so i actually think this is pretty good.

At the minute the top tier decks seem to rely on mimic and sharpshooter to counter sentries, i think the way to hurt that is with blacklist and high strength ICE with breaker destruction.
Crick is awesome in RP iv come to realise (after everyone saying it for ages), bako becomes awesome with their corroder in the bin, same with lotus field.

Val is a problem, my idea for that matchup is to score out a clone retirement as soon as possible and stick a hive over HQ to tax out vamp runs. Archer costs 7-8c to break with eater so that too. Really though, its a tough one. Stealth Hayley/Andy is another tough meet. Hopefully hive and caprice save the day there.

As a build its probably a tier 1.5 at the very best, realistically probably a 2.


Blacklist RP

Jinteki: Replicating Perfection (Trace Amount)

Agenda (10)
3x Clone Retirement (Second Thoughts)
3x Nisei MK II (Core Set)
1x Philotic Entanglement (Honor and Profit)
3x The Future Perfect (Honor and Profit)

Asset (11)
2x Blacklist (Breaker Bay) ••
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) •••
3x Mental Health Clinic (Honor and Profit)
3x Sundew (Mala Tempora)

Upgrade (3)
3x Caprice Nisei (Double Time)

Operation (7)
3x Celebrity Gift (Opening Moves)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
1x Interns (Mala Tempora)

Barrier (5)
3x Himitsu-Bako (Opening Moves)
2x Hive (Double Time) ••••

Code Gate (5)
2x Crick (Breaker Bay)
2x Enigma (Core Set)
1x Lotus Field (Upstalk)

Sentry (8)
3x Archer (Core Set) ••••• •
2x Grim (Opening Moves)
3x Pup (Honor and Profit)

15 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Breaker Bay

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.
Memstrips deserves a chance. Memstrips.
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mendax
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Re: Blacklist RP

Postby mendax » Wed May 20, 2015 12:38 pm

Why Hive over shutdown?
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king_mob
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Re: Blacklist RP

Postby king_mob » Wed May 20, 2015 12:42 pm

Yeah thinking about it Hive maybe not so hot. I wanted some better barriers in place than just bako to tax out lady, hive seemed like a quicker multi sub option, although probably should an ELI. In standard RP, with 3x nisei, 3x TFP, 3x NAPD, Hive never goes blank, which is nice. I think probably for this agenda suite though Eli or similar would be a better choice.

I honestly have never had the balls for shutdown, but with crick now it may actually be pretty good.
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mendax
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Re: Blacklist RP

Postby mendax » Wed May 20, 2015 1:00 pm

I'm basing this off my experience playin shutdown PE, so I may be a little biased, but Shutdown is really good in this kind of deck. You do need archives threats though e.g. shock or good ice.
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king_mob
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Re: Blacklist RP

Postby king_mob » Wed May 20, 2015 1:13 pm

I should probably try it, crick makes sticking things in archives so much less of a headache now. On the other hand, thinking about it, half the point of the deck is being happy to give up clone retirements and spent nisei's if it means rezzing an archer they cant answer, and putting programs in the heap. The blacklist locks things down. So in fact Hive will fluctuate, as i forfeit agendas it gets value back. I cant decide whether or not thats worth giving up for shutdown. That leaves only 16 ICE and very little to punish runs.
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mendax
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Re: Blacklist RP

Postby mendax » Wed May 20, 2015 3:30 pm

Fwiw, I was playing 15 ice (Archer, Grim, Bako, Yagura, Cortex) and that was enough. Having blacklist does mean another server to protect though..
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Vinegarymink
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Re: Blacklist RP

Postby Vinegarymink » Thu May 21, 2015 1:16 pm

3 Clone Retirement in RP is asking for trouble. There's a reason that the RP decks that want to play a 1 pointer to lower their agenda density don't play it.
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king_mob
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Re: Blacklist RP

Postby king_mob » Thu May 21, 2015 1:40 pm

Vinegarymink wrote:There's a reason that the RP decks that want to play a 1 pointer to lower their agenda density don't play it.


Just the bad pub? As i see it the reason to run a singleton 1 pointer is to slow down the runners scoring pattern. CR is fairly painful when stolen so is a poor fit for that.
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Vinegarymink
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Re: Blacklist RP

Postby Vinegarymink » Thu May 21, 2015 1:43 pm

Yeah that's exactly it. The downside of Clone Retirement getting taken is bad for RP for a lot of reasons. It makes Sundew easier to trash, decreases the usefulness of cards like Pup and it makes the ID ability worse.
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king_mob
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Re: Blacklist RP

Postby king_mob » Thu May 21, 2015 1:49 pm

Vinegarymink wrote:Yeah that's exactly it. The downside of Clone Retirement getting taken is bad for RP for a lot of reasons. It makes Sundew easier to trash, decreases the usefulness of cards like Pup and it makes the ID ability worse.


BP wrecks pup, sad face.

Bit confused on what you mean by "makes the ID ability worse"? Do you mean, as they are running a central before a remote, they effectively have another opportunity to use that BP, so before where it was costing them a click to run a remote, now it costs them a click but they gain a credit (the BP)? So effectively net zero.
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Vinegarymink
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Re: Blacklist RP

Postby Vinegarymink » Thu May 21, 2015 1:58 pm

king_mob wrote:
Vinegarymink wrote:Yeah that's exactly it. The downside of Clone Retirement getting taken is bad for RP for a lot of reasons. It makes Sundew easier to trash, decreases the usefulness of cards like Pup and it makes the ID ability worse.


BP wrecks pup, sad face.

Bit confused on what you mean by "makes the ID ability worse"? Do you mean, as they are running a central before a remote, they effectively have another opportunity to use that BP, so before where it was costing them a click to run a remote, now it costs them a click but they gain a credit (the BP)? So effectively net zero.


Yeah going in the lategame RP often wants to make each piece of outermost central ice taxing in some way, so that the runner loses more than a click to run the remote. You'll often see something like Enigma, Pup, Crick as the outermost pieces of ice for this reason. This is a lot harder to execute when you have Bad Publicity.
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king_mob
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Re: Blacklist RP

Postby king_mob » Thu May 21, 2015 2:05 pm

Vinegarymink wrote:
king_mob wrote:
Vinegarymink wrote:Yeah that's exactly it. The downside of Clone Retirement getting taken is bad for RP for a lot of reasons. It makes Sundew easier to trash, decreases the usefulness of cards like Pup and it makes the ID ability worse.


BP wrecks pup, sad face.

Bit confused on what you mean by "makes the ID ability worse"? Do you mean, as they are running a central before a remote, they effectively have another opportunity to use that BP, so before where it was costing them a click to run a remote, now it costs them a click but they gain a credit (the BP)? So effectively net zero.


Yeah going in the lategame RP often wants to make each piece of outermost central ice taxing in some way, so that the runner loses more than a click to run the remote. You'll often see something like Enigma, Pup, Crick as the outermost pieces of ice for this reason. This is a lot harder to execute when you have Bad Publicity.


I argued till the cows came home on stimhack for ICE that had something other than ETR as its first sub being better in RP than hard stop. Just bouncing seemed to be an easy out for a runner wanting to hit a remote, forcing an interaction seemed to be the way to go, to that i said such things as "markus is stronger than eli in RP". Admittedly, i was pretty drunk at the time.
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Vinegarymink
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Re: Blacklist RP

Postby Vinegarymink » Thu May 21, 2015 2:20 pm

There's a fine balance to be struck, because you really just want ETR for your scoring server. Also individual card quality is a factor - Markus obviously has a nice effect in RP, but Eli is just a much stronger card generally, and it's downside is mitigated on your scoring remote.

Generally Glacier decks have to really want an effect to justify taking Bad Publicity, because the free credits really build up. This deck probably want to go a bit faster, but that makes Sundew and MHC a bit more awkward.
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MasterAir
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Re: Blacklist RP

Postby MasterAir » Thu May 21, 2015 3:29 pm

@cerberus plays Grim, #justsayin
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king_mob
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Re: Blacklist RP

Postby king_mob » Thu May 21, 2015 4:07 pm

Iv flip flopped on grim a lot for straight RP, in something like this ICE smashing variant i think its ideal. In vanilla Modern RP, its a 5c rez ICE so it takes one of the 3 ICE that are in that cost bracket slots, i'd feel weird going down to 2 lotus field and i like a tsurugi for the other slot. Not arguing with Dave H on the validity of grim in RP by any stretch but iv found it a tough sell sometimes. I like it in the blacklist version though.
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king_mob
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Re: Blacklist RP

Postby king_mob » Thu May 21, 2015 4:28 pm

Updated after some chatter on stimhack.

Blacklist RP

Jinteki: Replicating Perfection (Trace Amount)

Agenda (10)
1x Chronos Project (First Contact)
2x Clone Retirement (Second Thoughts)
3x Nisei MK II (Core Set)
1x Philotic Entanglement (Honor and Profit)
3x The Future Perfect (Honor and Profit)

Asset (5)
1x Blacklist (Breaker Bay)
1x Executive Boot Camp (All That Remains)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) •••

Upgrade (3)
3x Caprice Nisei (Double Time)

Operation (15)
1x Archived Memories (Core Set) ••
3x Celebrity Gift (Opening Moves)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
1x Interns (Mala Tempora)
3x Power Shutdown (Mala Tempora) ••••• •
3x Restructure (Second Thoughts)
1x Subliminal Messaging (Fear and Loathing)

Barrier (3)
3x Himitsu-Bako (Opening Moves)

Code Gate (6)
2x Crick (Breaker Bay)
1x Enigma (Core Set)
3x Lotus Field (Upstalk)

Sentry (7)
1x Archer (Core Set) ••
2x Grim (Opening Moves)
3x Pup (Honor and Profit)
1x Susanoo-No-Mikoto (Honor and Profit)
15 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Breaker Bay

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.
Memstrips deserves a chance. Memstrips.
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Cerberus
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Re: Blacklist RP

Postby Cerberus » Thu May 21, 2015 5:54 pm

MasterAir wrote:@cerberus plays Grim, #justsayin


I've been torn on it for some time, you definitely don't want to see it early, as you want your economy up and running before you take the bad pub.

However, a lot of runner decks can't easily deal with / don't expect Grim in RP and that shock factor can win games. In normal RP I see it as an alternative to Cortex Lock but for the late game rather than the early.

It's worth noting I was playing it in Grail where your opponents know most or all of your ice mix. Especially the strength of your sentry ice.

It's a good surprise card, one that won me Sheffield Regionals, after Laurie face planted it with a full breaker suite, but relying on Mimic. That window allowed me to score the first Nisei.
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king_mob
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Re: Blacklist RP

Postby king_mob » Fri May 22, 2015 12:30 am

Cerberus wrote:but relying on Mimic.


...is one of the reasons i think a shutdown/nlacklist deck with high strength destroyers could be quite well placed in the current meta. Sharpshooter can get trapped in the heap by blacklist and mimic needs plenty of sucker tokens to answer grim and archer. Dies pretty hard to stealth though.
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mendax
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Re: Blacklist RP

Postby mendax » Fri May 22, 2015 12:36 am

Against Stealth you're relying on the philo hail mary. Bluff it as a caprice, hit them for a tonne, hope they've cut the feedback filter.
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king_mob
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Re: Blacklist RP is dead, long live Shutdown PE

Postby king_mob » Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:59 pm

Necro'ing this thread as im all a-quiver over PE and how badly it seems to do competitively post 2014. I know evilgaz took one to the throat in sheffield though so there may be legs in it yet.

Playing around with blacklist again, slotting shutdowns now for NRE hate.

Shutdown PE

Jinteki: Personal Evolution (Core Set)

Agenda (10)
3x Clone Retirement (Second Thoughts)
3x Fetal AI (Trace Amount)
1x Philotic Entanglement (Honor and Profit)
3x The Future Perfect (Honor and Profit)

Asset (10)
1x Aggressive Secretary (Core Set) ••
2x Blacklist (Breaker Bay) ••
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) •••
1x Ronin (Future Proof)
3x Snare! (Core Set)

Upgrade (3)
3x Hokusai Grid (Humanity's Shadow)

Operation (9)
3x Celebrity Gift (Opening Moves)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
2x Power Shutdown (Mala Tempora) ••••
1x Subliminal Messaging (Fear and Loathing)

Barrier (3)
3x Himitsu-Bako (Opening Moves)

Code Gate (6)
2x Crick (Breaker Bay)
1x Lockdown (Chrome City)
2x Lotus Field (Upstalk)
1x Quandary (Double Time)

Sentry (8)
2x Archer (Core Set) ••••
2x Cortex Lock (The Valley)
1x Grim (Opening Moves)
3x Pup (Honor and Profit)
15 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Chrome City

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.
Memstrips deserves a chance. Memstrips.

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