Because We Built It - Part 1: Clicks and Clots

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Because We Built It - Part 1: Clicks and Clots

Postby Chimpster » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:53 pm

Site Article: http://netrunners.co.uk/articles/becaus ... art-1.html

Because helping to organise and run the National Netrunner tournament just wasn't enough, Coops has kindly agreed to start a regular deck building feature! Read on for advice on how to gain a better grasp on key deck building fundamentals and some solid deck suggestions to learn key deck building principles (there's even homework for the committed among you!).
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Re: Because We Built It - Part 1: Clicks and Clots

Postby GuyCliquil » Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:27 pm

Private Cliquil reporting for duty!

I am going to follow this, at least in part, because I have wanted to turn over a new leaf and treat the after Nationals release as a moment I can go off in a new direction with the game. (blah blah blah I was one of the worst players there, trampoline based humour... :roll: )

My declared intention is to end up, as Runner, playing Laramy Fisk very happily. I think he'll be passed over as people excitedly wait for the big box, and despite being known for over a year now nobody has put a lot of time and interest into him. This means that in step 1 of the program I will be learning Criminals which means learning how to play using Dave's Leela deck.

As corp I can't decide between Stronger Together and Custom Biotics. I definitely think I like HB the most; and want to try and bend one of those two identities' abilities to make something truly worthwhile out of it. To that end I get the joy of trying out Alan Noonan's HB:ETF deck.

(I appreciate that this may fall foul of the "Captain Jank" section of the post. I'll aim for Tier 3 if necessary! I'd probably mention though that there are plenty of identities that aren't always the top identities but that some people do very well with. Its also the only way I'll ever commit to this process. If I ended up with a deck nigh on identical to other decks I'd probably be very dissatisfied with it)

This will, unfortunately, require a lot of making my own paper versions of cards to go into sleeves so hopefully the Oxford meta will be very forgiving of this. There are important cards in both of these and I know from experience that you can't just go "Oh well that card is in there to do X, so if I get another card in there that does X that should work" and forit to all be fine.

If something somewhere is set up to catalogue experiences of those on this epic journey I shall be glad to contribute where useful.
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Re: Because We Built It - Part 1: Clicks and Clots

Postby SmoothCoop » Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:23 am

Welcome Private!

Criminal and HB sound like an excellent choice. I feel that Laramy Fisk will have his own style of play - at the moment, it feels like he's going to mill the corp via overdrawing of their hand.

As for Custom Biotics, it's very powerful - there are a lot of good NBN and Weyland cards you can include. The meat damage combo is obviously something to import, but you can also make a very rich deck.

Feel free to note your progress in this forum - that's what it's here for :) I'll try and include some interesting progress reports in the next article :)
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Re: Because We Built It - Part 1: Clicks and Clots

Postby Cerberus » Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:33 am

Great article, I think it covers a lot of what I consider basics when thinking about deck building. Don't forget about the basics, economy and ice/breakers. Don't go all in on an ability and not include good cards. Don't go for combos that don't win you the game consistently.

Regarding Laramy Fisk, I think he is going to be surprisingly good and I think he could be a very strong ID. He will definitely be one I focus on when he comes out.
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Re: Because We Built It - Part 1: Clicks and Clots

Postby riemy » Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:55 am

I'll take your course! It seems like the right thing at the right time for me.

Just started Netrunner three months ago and have yet only played some casual rounds with friends who were also new to the game. I've been wanting to go to my local meta already twice to play with people that are actually invested in this, but bailed out, because I didn't feel ready. I tried to build two decks, but the results were kind of disappointing (seeing this, without even having them played...). Also just getting a premade deck from runnerdb didin't feel right either.

I take your starting article series as a motivation to really attend my local meeting points and get going with the gaming. So... thank you! :)
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Re: Because We Built It - Part 1: Clicks and Clots

Postby MouseChan » Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:02 am

Social Media guru for Netrunners.co.uk

Legenadry girl hacker with awesome hair

2x Bradford SC 1x Leeds SC winner
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Re: Because We Built It - Part 1: Clicks and Clots

Postby pruneface » Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:34 pm

Without wanting to take this thread too much into Fisk territory...I also think Fisk will be really interesting to play with and offer some really subtle ways of placing pressure. I hope we see a reprint of Cockroach from ONR in some form as Fisk Support.

Further to what Cerberus said, I think there's a lot that can be said for forcing yourself to play with X economy cards minimum in a runner / corp deck. I also think that playing a lot with a specific ID and archetype until you understand what it feels like it's about...how it wants to be played...what you do in various matchups etc. is a good way of building deep knowledge of the game. Personally I think that HB/Crim are the best factions to learn with for complete newbies because criminal is very much about money, breakers, knowing how to poke the corp where it hurts...and HB vanilla is about economic advantage, solid ice, finding scoring windows and forcing runs. I think these are some good key skills to develop in netrunner. Then again, I learned on Crim/HB, so I'm massively biased :D
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Re: Because We Built It - Part 1: Clicks and Clots

Postby HalfDayDeemo » Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:45 pm

Netrunner homework? I'm down.

I think this sort of structured approach with be good for me. I've decided to give Stealth Hayley and HB Glacier a go from the lists in the article.

Lookong forward to more articles Coop.
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Re: Because We Built It - Part 1: Clicks and Clots

Postby mendax » Sat Jun 06, 2015 3:41 pm

I'm choosing Leela and Bootcamp Glacier, though I know the latter isn't on the list.
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Re: Because We Built It - Part 1: Clicks and Clots

Postby MartinP » Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:56 pm

I'll pick one of the Corps to pickup and try (Probably Fried Runner or Raining Tags), but Runner is dead set on Nasir until I give up on making it work for next year :lol:
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Re: Because We Built It - Part 1: Clicks and Clots

Postby HalfDayDeemo » Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:25 pm

I wanted to post some initial impressions of the decks I'm playing in the hope it will generate some discussion. I'm playing Hayley and HB from the article.

Firstly I'll caveat by saying I haven't played many games and in those games I have played I don't think I played great due to not really knowing the decks as much. So this is me just trying to be reflective on the decks at first impression; the point being to be analytical of right?

Hayley - I've not really seen the stealth rig in full flow. I actually found it hard to get my breakers, and i feel like I would like to learn improved this, adding a 2nd copy of the breakers or a test run in addition to the SMCs. The economy is complex in this deck, as you need it for setup but also to threaten a remote during this which is what I struggled with in general. Seeing Kati earlier would help this. Stand out cards: Career Fair, I always feel good installing two resources for little money. Suspect cards: Earthrise Hotel, it's great with career fair but seems a real tempo hit when installing normally. Those credits are really tight.

HB - I'm still reeling from a blowout vs RegAss MaxX with Net Ready Eyes. Tunings on remotes were either D4v1d'd or You'd (NRE + sucker). Asset econ was Imp'd. Having said that I like the deck with its taxing ability. Stand out card: Breaker Bay, being able to still res Ash after a Vamp, yes please! Suspect Cards: Mandatory Upgrades, and to a lesser extent Director Haas. I was never happy to see MU as it always felt too long to score it. I was able to use Haas for a while which was great, but ultimately couldn't turn the clicks into a win.

How are others getting on? How are you going about analysing thing?
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Re: Because We Built It - Part 1: Clicks and Clots

Postby mendax » Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:56 pm

I don't believe that MU and Haas are that good either, though I haven't played with it (only against it).
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Re: Because We Built It - Part 1: Clicks and Clots

Postby GuyCliquil » Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:20 pm

In the spirit of HalfDayDeemo's contribution I will offer the following.

I took the Leela deck and by goodness it is just lovely. There are things in there that I love - Sneakdoor, 3 Siphons, 3 Dirty Laundries, Kati Jones is fantastic, and the Baby of Efficiency is a really good slow boost. I feel like I didn't make good use of the Desperado/Security Testing combo but I mainly played against glacier decks where they didn't want to give any good cheap targets for it. The one time I played a fast advance NBN deck the NBN player was having such a bad day I was better off hammering R&D and HQ relentlessly before they could get going. I also lost one game to a very well timed Snatch & Grab that ended my money making machine. I was told that the best way to avoid this is to always keep some money in the pile, and make sure not to think of Kati as a bank. That is good advice, certainly, and I will have to see if I can make that work for me. I was initially worried that as a "beginner" criminal deck it might be complex to play; I had assumed that using Leela's ability took real expertise, but I actually I think that a lot of it helps to do what a runner should be doing anyway, perhaps particularly a criminal - assessing a weakspot. I hope to improve my use of Desperado/Security Testing for money which I only got going a little at one point. I also missed my Shaperey SMC/Clone Chip shennanigans that make running blind safe(r); here I was reluctant to do much facechecking except against Weyland. I also need to learn to trash assets more, but that's me as a runner generally.

HB - I struggled a little more with this deck; I think I got about even with this deck. I never really played much Ash, but Caprice is wonderful as always. I too also struggled with Manadtory Upgrades (and Director Haas, though I never really saw her come out); I wonder if scoring that requires a really well skilled player like its creator. I made a couple of attempts, and was told I probably missed an MU scoring opportunity but it is quite a ballsy play whenever it is done. I do, however, appreciate having only 2 point agendas in the deck guaranteeing that both sides have to score 4 of them. It allows for a little less fear of a 5:3 going to the Runner and giving them the chance to clean out on a turn or so. I also agree that Breaker Bay rezzing an Adonis or an Eve is one of the sweetest feelings in the world.

Oh and I have to learn not to trigger ABT blindly. I just WANT it to work. I fired it once, put three cards into archives and Oxford Stu (Chewie on here) was able to go "I run Archive and just see what a mess you've made" and promptly took a crucual 2 points. :mrgreen:

All in all I think this a very valuable program - would definitely install on Omni Drive.

(Also, as a confessional aside, I am allowing myself to still run jank on the side for fun. Funnily enough my GRINDL jank did better than the HB, but that deck basically runs on luck and fumes so I am going to just remember that. Plus I think a lot of the HB losses were down to piloting error so I'm not criticizing the deck one iota)
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Re: Because We Built It - Part 1: Clicks and Clots

Postby SmoothCoop » Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:39 pm

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Re: Because We Built It - Part 1: Clicks and Clots

Postby SmoothCoop » Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:49 am

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Re: Because We Built It - Part 1: Clicks and Clots

Postby HalfDayDeemo » Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:49 am

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Re: Because We Built It - Part 1: Clicks and Clots

Postby Sixtyten » Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:33 pm

So I fast advanced to victory twice last night with Director Haas on the table. Agenda flood is no longer a problem. It's brutal!

I still haven't quite got the feel for leela vs Gabe who I've been running with for a long time now. In slow scoring decks I found it was easy to get locked out without being able to use my ability or many of the decent econ cards...
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Re: Because We Built It - Part 1: Clicks and Clots

Postby GuyCliquil » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:26 am

Forgive me oh Coopmaster for I hath sinned!

But its not my fault!

I was meant to be going to a draft tournament with the Oxford chaps and so I needed some sleeves. I therefore unsleeved my corp decks but still took down my Weyland deck because it is quick and there was a chance of playing before/after. I did still have the Leela deck beaus I didn't need some extra sleeves and I use more "Alt art" cards that I didn't want to unsleeve/desleeve (I am torn on what negative to use).

And then I was cruelly* excluded from the draft. It was definitely because the Oxford meta were so utterly terrified of my mighty knowledge of jank, rather than it being a roll of the dice for those who were willing to take backseat.

So a trio of us sat and played normal netrunner, with normal decks and everything. But this meant that all of my corp playing was not with the HB deck I was supposed to be learning with.

But I did get to practice with Leela against two different decks. The first was a Gagarin deck that I think was asset heavy and designed to get a serious amount of money and just tax the runner into oblivion. It never quite going though as I was able to use baby Proco & Kati Jones to get just enough money to continue to have enough random accesses that I got the win before I could be locked out. It helped that I had the breaker suite reasonably early, partly through Special Order which I think is a must include in any crim deck, so there was no real remote play to be had. I think all the agendas I saw were advancable, and I didn't see any traps. So the game was over before that deck got to play its game. I then got to take on an NEH Grail which, similarly wasn't really able to keep me out of servers. I also managed to get the Desperado/Security Testing online early, this meant that I chose not to trash their asset economy. This might have been the wrong call because it did leave the Biotic Labour fast advance option to start the Astrotrain and have the money to keep going with that. My opponent thinks I still came off better from the exchange; I was happy to take 6 credits from 2 clicks constantly; and it did enable me to have money to trash San Sans, and just run at anything I felt like to check out that it wasn't an attempt to sneak out an agenda. This meant that HQ had enough in it to hammer it through Sneakdoors and take enough to win out.

I did also play against that Leela where, for variety, I played an opponent's NEH fast advance deck. The deck was not as kind to my opponent, gave him little to no economy (which was double punished by my having a fortuitous Closed Accounts ready for immediately after a Lucky Find) which meant that he was little able to lock me out of getting a load of San San advances going. I was even able to score out an NAPD on the San San on the simple basis that he couldn't afford to steal it. It was still nerve wracking to play against - I did lose some agendas off the top of R&D because every time I'd put extra ice to defend it he was able to bounce it back. Eventually I was able to triple secure it so that at least 1 strong piece of ice waited there. I also benefited greatly from Brendan's advice in another thread about playing against Headlock - granted Leela isn't a headlock, but the advice about Siphon is still transferable. I held on to my Sweeps Weeks unless I really had to use them, and had even a little asset economy to get me back up to speed after I was Siphoned a couple of times. It helped me understand the Leela deck from the other side of the table, and how it does look slightly less threatening without a developed board state. To be fair this is because I knew its multi access was interfaces and not Maker's Eye - that may have effected my judgement.

All in all I still love the deck.

I do have some questions; I have seen it written that "run early, run often" is a Criminal mantra yet I am a little reluctant to be super aggressive because I feel like if I am then the Ice I may want to bounce back will be rezzed. . How do I combine those two principles? Plus how do I treat the dilemma of Security Testing naked assets with the temptation to trash them - is it a case by case basis, or are there some rules of thumb?

As a corp I played once with my silly GRINDL Weyland. Frustratingly it won again despite it probably not really deserving to. It has almost got me wondering if I am a more natural Weyland player than an HB one, but I will leave those thoughts for another day.

TL:DR - I sinned on the corp side though its not all my fault, but I still have a crush on Ceberus' Leela.
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Re: Because We Built It - Part 1: Clicks and Clots

Postby mendax » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:34 am

Leela is much more control than must crims, rather than aggro like Gabe.
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Re: Because We Built It - Part 1: Clicks and Clots

Postby SmoothCoop » Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:58 pm

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Re: Because We Built It - Part 1: Clicks and Clots

Postby HalfDayDeemo » Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:14 pm

2nd week and I have fared a little better this time around with Stealth Hayley and HB Glacier.

Firstly I wanted to say that after having more experience with the decks I feel like they were built for the controlling meta of RP and Kate. It's interesting seeing how they stand up against the more janky affair you are likely to see in your post uk organised play season.

First up Hayley which i played against the following; Nisei Division (!?), Blue Sun Glacier, RP ELP. The first time around I was definitely playing too aggressively with my standard credits, but this time I sat back in most games and just built, which is where Hayley really shines. Knocking out an Armitage and ghost runner for two creds and then clicking back up is just great. Playing vs ND was interesting as i felt like I had to stall until my key cards were down for fear hey might get pinged out of hand. Took an early brain damage off a Cerebral Cast too as a Scorch would have dropped two breakers in the bin. Ultimately won after playing steady and thinking about Psi games. Vs blue sun felt comfortable as i sat back until running was cheaper, though I felt that I had nothing to answer an OAI curtain wall. Lady might have made this a bit more doable. Ironically I struggled va RP due to barrier taxing and not having enough money to trash assets. Credits are at a premium when building and i never felt I could go and get those Sundews without leaving me flat broke.

All in all I think I'm getting a better feel for the deck which is good as I want to apply this to whatever the next article is about. Why am I winning/losing? Bad games seem to come from not thinking ahead, wins come out of maintaining threat on the remote and running smart thereafter. Interestingly enough I am finding that the deck puts you into a good position and then it's more about picking the most optimal plays. Are the agendas pooled in HQ, is R&D worth a single access or should you build for the RDI?

Stand out cards: Switchblade and Refractor feel even better when you don't have to SMC them. Career fair put in work still, even just for one Daily cast is good.
Suspect Cards: I'm dropping Earthrise from this list as I can see its importance, you need to wait for a career fair or solid credits to install though. I'm putting Corroder here now I think, as it uses up tight regular credits.

HB was against, Net RegAss MaxX, CT Au Revour Snitch, and a quick game vs the Hayley Stealth deck above. I'll post that tomorrow as I need sleep now!

Good to read the reports, keep em coming.
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Re: Because We Built It - Part 1: Clicks and Clots

Postby Sixtyten » Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:31 pm

HB - I had 2x 5 click turns last night with the director rezzed and a mandatory upgrades installed.

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Re: Because We Built It - Part 1: Clicks and Clots

Postby HalfDayDeemo » Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:07 pm

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Re: Because We Built It - Part 1: Clicks and Clots

Postby Sixtyten » Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:50 pm

MOON MONEY!
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Re: Because We Built It - Part 1: Clicks and Clots

Postby MasterAir » Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:16 am

Unless you're planning murder. Agg Sec is approximately 900% better than Cerebral Overwriter. I'm totally fine playing with a 2 card hand so long as the corp doesn't want to murder me. You don't have to count up to very many influence to be sure that HB isn't particularly interested in murder.
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